Talk:Khojaly massacre

Glad to see someone beat me to adding this article. It does a fantastic job of illustrating the little known Azeri blame for the Khojaly/Khojalu events... Hovik 19:24, 23 July 2007 (PDT)

Actually, civilians were killed there by Armenian soldiers... I would like the article to have a neutral description of events, as accurately as we can know. --Raffi 00:29, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

Indeed there were, In the book My brothers road, Monte Melkonian mentions they killed civilians, but he never meant it to happen. The city was being pounded and shelled from every angle, it certainly is exaggerated by the Azeri side but many atrocities took place that day. The article will be improved. --Nareklm 00:50, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

Not to mention the Russian army that day... --Nareklm 00:52, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

Well I don't know personally what happened because I wasn't there, or involved in any way at the time. I don't know how neutral the article originally posted [1] was, but it is full of non-Armenian, even Azeri sources, published in International Media. I believe the newspaper articles and interviews should be given the benefit of the doubt. I don't see anything, even Markar Melkonian's book that shows me even remotely solid evidence that Armenians killed innocent Azeri's. If I recall correctly from the book, Monte wasn't present in Khojali, and only knows what he heard through the grapevine. I've asked Markar about this issue in an e-mail and am waiting for a response. So I'd be interested to know on what solid evidence we are being the judges of Armenian actions. Please share. Thanks Hovik 17:07, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

Please see this article for another source: [2]

We should use My Brother's Road, Goltz, Human Rights Watch, articles from the time, Azeri sources, etc... give the best picture of what happened as is humanely possible, and any other scenarios with some credibility/believability. I want to make sure that anybody who visits this site, including Azeris, see that the information provided is worthy of their time and credible. I have worked hard to achieve that in the genocide section of the site, I think (hope) successfully. We could start with the Wikipedia article and improve/expand it, or just use parts of it, or start from scratch like this. --Raffi 22:04, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for the excerpts, Hye. If you could add dates, too, it would be quite nice, as people could know when this was going on, and verify articles if they like. Thanks, --Raffi 23:14, 7 September 2007 (PDT)

Unsourced Armenian POV text

I moved this text from article to here because it was written with a strong POV and without references. The origin of the text is also not mentioned. In any case, anything of value that is verifiable can be moved from here to the article itself.

The Azeri party's main evidence, video survey made February 29 and March 2, 1992 by the operator Chingiz Fuad-oghly(Mustafaev), absolutely refutes the Azeri propaganda's fabrications. As it may be seen, Chingiz is walking by a filed dotted by corpses accompanied by Azeris, which confirms that the territory was controlled by the Azeri party. A supposition that Armenians seized the territories staking their life to gibe at the corpses and then give way to the Azeri operators is absurd.

"Perhaps, the most detestable fraud created by the Azerbaijani propagandists in recent years is the hoax of so-called Khojaly (Xojalli) Massacre. In late February 1992, when Armenian self-defense units had to disarm the Azeri military base in the town of Khojaly in central Karabakh, gunmen of the ultranationlist Popular Front of Azerbaijan (PFAP) slaughtered some 100 Azeri civilians who were fleeing the embattled town through a land corridor left for them by the Karabakhi Armenian forces.

Later, the PFAP gunmen mutilated the bodies of the dead Azeris and mixed them with the killed-in-advance Armenian hostages, which were taken prisoners by them a month earlier. Because the Armenian forces did not want to harm Khojaly civilians, they issued an advance warning of the attack, requesting the Azeris to allow any civilians to evacuate. This has been independently corroborated by Russian observers and by the testimonies of Azeri survivors of the attack.

Despite the obvious fact that the Armenian units by no means had any access to and never controlled the territory where the massacre took place, as it was located deep in the Azeri rear, late Azeri agitators ridiculously accused Armenians in killing Khojaly civilians, making a world-wide propaganda show out of this tragic event.

The exact reasons for why the PFAP's gunmen killed Khojaly's Azeri civilians remain unclear to date. According to some experts, it happened by mistake (by friendly fire), while in the opinion of the Azeri former president Ayaz Mutalibov it was a deliberate attempt to defame his administration by his rivals from the PFAP. It is notable that after the events in Khojaly Mutalibov was forced to resign.

It is also important to note that Azeri operator Chingiz Mustafayev, who filmed the dead bodies and later launched an independent investigation on the Khojaly events, was killed in Azerbaijan under mysterious circumstances, reportedly by PFAP thugs.

At any rate, the Khojaly slaughter highlights a key fact that Azeris are still a fragmented nation, parts of which continue maintaining strong regional identities, with tribal self-images sometimes prevailing over the identity as of "the Azeris." Under these circumstances, killing the representatives of a rival clan is not a totally unimaginable occurrence. (See interview with Ayaz Mutalibov in Nezavisimaya Gazeta newspaper, 2 April 1992, in Russian)."

Did you see the source at the end? its a third party one and that is why its under 'Armenian version'.--Hye 21:06, 1 December 2007 (PST)

That is a reference for Mutalibov's claims, not the source for this article. It would be good to include Mutalibov's version of events mentioned above in the Khojaly article, but of course the question of whether he's just saying this to make himself look better should also be addressed. --Raffi 02:52, 2 December 2007 (PST)

New text

Hello Hye - I am not sure where that text came from, but I have rolled back the change. It was not even really background on Khojalu - which is what belongs in that section - but rather it is explanation and denial of what happened. I really did not like it in many ways. The arguments over conflicting number is irrelevant - we may never know the real numbers. If there are verified sources saying that Azeris soldiers changed clothes into civilian clothes and shot, we can include that, obviously. But if women and children were being shot, and there are sources, we will include that as well. I want this article to be absolutely correct. If a Turk or Azeri cannot believe what is written on this page (or an Armenian or total outsider for that matter), why on earth should they believe the facts I've presented on the genocide? I don't think it would be fair to expect that. Anyway - I'm happy to see the article develop - but I want it to be a very studied progression... --Raffi 23:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)

Massacre?

Կ'ուզէի գիտնալ թէ ինչու՞ այս հոդվածը անուանուած է «Khojaly Massacre» երբ այս անուանումը յստակօրէն Ադրբեջանի տեսակետը կը ներկայացնէ։ Հայաստանի հանրապետութիւնը եւ մեծամասնութիւնը հայերու (բացի Մոնթէ Մելքոնեանի եղբայրը) կը ճանաչէ Խոջալույի դէպքերը ոչ իբրեւ ջարդ այլ ռազմական գործողութիւն ուր ադրբեջանցիները իրենց սխալներով սպանած են իրենց ժողովուրդը այս կամ այն քաղաքական պատճառներու համար (իշխանութեան փոփոխում)։ Եթէ անպայման ադրբեջանական տարբերակը դէպքերուն կ'ուզէք դնել այս հոդվածին մէջ, ըրէք իբրեւ «Azerbaijani claims on events» sub-section-ի մը տակ։ Միջազգային կազմակերպուիւններու նման մենք սխալ տեղեկութիւն կը տարածենք եւ իրենց նման կ'իյնանք ադրբեջանական թակարդին եւ պրոպագանդային մէջ։ Շնորհակալութիւն։

P.S. Եթէ աւելի տեղեկութիւն պէտք ունիք Խոջալուի դէպքերուն եւ ադրբեջանի պրոպագանդային մասին՝ կ'առաջարկեմ ձեզ այցելէք այս կարեւոր եւ հետաքրքրական կայքը http://xocali.net/ - Fedayee 03:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC)